Outlander Cast hosts Mary and Blake discuss Outlander episode 3.02 , entitled, “Surrender.” In this episode, you’ll learn all about the differences between the intimacy, pleasure, and connection of sex, another great scene of tension, why Laura Donnelly killed it but her wig was rough, various “pants-off” moments for Blake, Jeremiah Johnson, why Fergus may be cute but not all that smart, braiding Jamie’s gorgeous locks, the continued Frank debate and much more!
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I want to discuss a topic that has been hotly debated since the show began — show Frank versus book Frank. I know a lot of book readers feel that the show runners are making Frank more sympathetic and turning Claire into the villain. I strongly disagree. The difference in the two Franks lies in how the story is being told on tv versus the books. The show runners are presenting Claire’s life with Frank in real time. That simply wasn’t the case in the books. Once Claire goes through the stones to the past, the reader never “sees” Frank again. We only learn about Frank through the biased memories of others, especially Claire. And beginning with Dragonfly in Amber, those memories belong to a 50+ year old women who survived almost 20 years of a unhappy, loveless marriage to this man. As with anyone who has been in a bad relationship, most of Claire’s memories of Frank are unpleasant ones. She rarely reminisces on the good times and Frank’s positive actions. And, as is normal in human nature, she rarely focuses on her role in the marital problems. Was Frank perfect? Of course not. Did he do and say lousy things? Sure, we all do. But, he was also a good guy. How could he not be? His wife disappears for three years. When she shows up, she announces that she had been with another man and is pregnant with that man’s child. Frank forgives her, takes her back, and agrees to raise that child with her. And, when she wants to go to medical school and become a doctor, he supports her. I’m not sure if they’ll show this in the show, but he even rearranges his schedule so that he can take care of Bree while Claire pursues her dreams. And, this was in the 50s when men expected their wives to be content as homemakers and mothers. As for Claire, I don’t feel that she is being portrayed as a villain at all in the show. Especially in this last episode, Claire is really trying to be a good wife to Frank. She is the one that initiates intimacy. But, Franks wants her body and soul; he wants her to be completely his. And, she simply can’t do that so soon after losing Jaime.
I agree with you 100% Rosemary.
I also agree 100%!
I agree with the comments above. I think in terms of Claire’s behavior and reactions, I like that they portray situations realistically. That means that people don’t always behave in the noblest or kindest way we wish they would. Particularly if they are hurt and or vulnerable. When Frank calls Claire out on not being able to look at him, he is shining a light on something that she would not be proud of, is trying to get past while she is very vulnerable. I think it’s completely natural that her first reaction would be defensive.
Ok,, let’s talk about Jamie’s frequent visits to Lallybroch. We know from the books that he lived in that cave for over 6 yrs. Every single event portrayed in the episode did happen (in one way or the other) , but they occured over a 6-7 year period. They had to fit in all these events in a single episode. They couldn’t keep him in the cave the whole time. So please cut them some slack!!!!
Yes, show-Frank is still an (era accurate) self centered egotist. Before, his second favorite honeymoon activity was looking up HIS relatives. Last episode, when Claire talked about getting US citizenship, he said that England was the country HE fought for. Hello – so did she! At the dinner party, he offers to get seconds on desert in order to escape onerous comparisons between the Randall marriage to the Nelson’s.
Then, eyes open or closed, Frank must see constantly see what is in Claire’s ‘glass face.’ And when she wakes him, face to face, when she says, ‘I miss my husband’ how can he not see the truth in her face and doubt her. A truly impossible marriage.
Blake – Fergus’s hand being cut off is something that happened. Its not a plot device. “It _just_happened” as Diana would say. Don’t read into it so much.
I totally agree with Rosemary (in the comments above). We were not show ‘live, real-time” Frank. We saw Claire’s memories of Frank 20 years after they got back together. I’m guessing the show will show us another side of Frank in the future (a loveless marriage will probably cause him frustration too – not just Claire).
Everyone should watch Season 2 Episode 9 Je Suis Prest,” right before you watch Season Three Episode Three. If you don’t have the time, at least watch the scene of William Grey’s introduction. I’m amazed at how much the boy Oscar Kennedy looks like the grown-up David Berry. And considering the fact that most boys could play William Grey, but they had to go through about half the British actors to find their Lord John Grey. They cast Oscar Kennedy, not knowing what the adult version would look like. They can’t afford to get the part of Lord John Grey wrong. I have complete confidence that David Berry will be great in the part. I’ve seen him in other parts, and he does have the acting chops. That combined with the brilliance of the book and the writers will see them through.
Sorry, but I totally disagree with Kendra’s take on how the show has “changed” the emotional trajectories and behavior of Frank and Claire. The scenes in this episode are not only consistent with Show Frank and Claire but they are totally consistent with Book Frank and Claire as well. There are plenty of scenes in the books that back that up, but some folks seem determined to skip over them. Claire is not consistently likable in the books and Frank is not consistently despicable. DG does not write faultless one-dimensional heroes and heroines; all of her characters have flaws. I think the show has been totally fair and balance in the representation of the relationship. They are BOTH victims of the situation and are surprisingly successful in living in harmony for the sake of Bree for stretches of time. They both respond to the relationship problems (particularly intimacy issues) with coldness, anger, jealousy, frustration that is totally understandable. There were plenty of times in the book that Claire was totally awful to Frank and Claire later admits to Jamie that she regretted the way she treated him. And Book-Claire does habitually respond to relationship conflicts with withdrawal and coldness – that IS Claire. Frank is awful to Claire as well at times too. But their relationship and their behavior toward each other, considering the circumstances, are incredibly realistic, true to the times and amazingly relatable despite the time travel element. I’ll go so far as to say that in some ways I find the Show interpretation to be superior to that of the books – and that’s coming from someone who is a first-release book reader of 25+years.
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I’m not through the entire podcast yet, but something I want desperately to talk to someone about is the fact the Claire says to Frank “I miss my husband”. Which husband is she referring to? She doesn’t say, “I miss you”…therefore I say the “husband” she is missing is Jamie. Love that you SAW THAT TOO!
I loved that they did the deliberately planned device of NEVER showing Claire and Jamie in the same frame through their separation.
I’ve often said that even if CLAIRE could have let go of Jamie enough to have a relationship with Frank – I don’t think FRANK could ever have let go of the idea that Jamie was in her head.