Outlander Podcast Hosts Mary & Blake discuss Outlander episode 4.10, “The Deep Heart’s Core”.
In this episode we chat why the Bree Jamie dynamic is extremely fruitful ground, why Jamie’s actions are confusing, and we go full OREO method…
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Hi Mary and Blake!
I have to admit that there were more positive than negatives in this episode! Having said that, there were a couple of issues I need to expound on for my conscience ‘s sake.
One, disappointed to see the lion’s share of blame being dumped on Jamie for his choices that brought on the wrath of Brianna. There were others that share responsibility for this fiasco, including Roger himself.
Brianna lied to Jamie when he asked her if she knew the man who attacked her.
Claire should never had kept the promise to withhold information about Bonnet from Jamie. Also, when she told Jamie that Brianna had been raped, she never told him that she was handfasted to Roger and that they had sex before she was raped. Misinformation from her and Lizzie caused a bad situation to go downhill fast! Let’s not forget the originator of this entire process: Stephen Bonnet!
I can only hope that this fractured situation can be mended in the 3 episodes remaining of Season Four because it would be torture to live through another Droughtlander with these issues unresolved.
My other concern is about the story of Roger and Caleb.
Caleb was the other prisoner of the Mohawk who died a few days into the journey north. Luke Schelhaas should have spent a few minutes expanding on his background instead of showing a bunch of running montages when Roger was evading capture at the end of the episode.
You wanted to feel sad at the death, but unfortunately, Caleb became an extra without any emotional connection.
The only reason I even found out his name was from listening to the Official Outlander Podcast for Episode 410, where Matt Roberts and Luke Schelhaas discussed the episode and the decisions they made based on time limitations.
I gave this episode 4.5 kilts based on the disjointed reasoning for some of the choices made by the writer and director in putting this together. Hopefully, “If Not For Hope” will bring some resolution to some of the fractures made to the family dynamic in this episode.
Looking forward to watching Billy Boyd from The Fellowship of the Ring Series next week! He plays a lawyer who wants to marry Brianna! ? Good luck!
Love listening to you two! I don’t always agree, but that’s part of the spice of life!!
Just 1 thing I want to point out about 410 – there are Rhododendron in Scotland! It was actually introduced as an ornamental plant and is now an invasive species…. poor Roger really was hiding behind them!?
This is Linda from Leesburg, Florida
I’m not usually very good at analyzing movies and tv shows. I tend to judge by how they make me feel. I finished watching 410 at 1 am on Sunday morning and sat for a full minute feeling stunned. Then all I could say was wow, just wow. That was phenomenal. Argument and all. An overwhelming 5 kilts. I don’t really know why, but I haven’t felt so emotionally and intimately connected to every event in an episode since the wedding. It drew me in. The first Jamie/Bree scene. Jamie’s “will you walk with me” that took me back to Helwater and JohnGrey. The family gatherings we don’t get to see enough of. Toilets that flush. The fight where everyone in the room shared the blame for Roger’s fate. My favorite line “you do not get to be more angry that me.” And let’s not forget, Roger actual ordeal. I think we really need to see what he went through. There was no good or bad for me. Everything was great.
Some observations from the podcast, which was awesome, as usual.
1. There are rhododendrons in the UK. There were huge thickets of them near where I lived as a child. Would not be surprised to find them in Scotland too.
2. Sorry, I am a bit done with Ian. No, he is not cute. At this point he’s supposed to be 19. John Bell is still playing him really immature. Time to grow up.
3. Totally agree, the acting this season has been amazing.
I would really like to talk about the Bree hatefest I discovered on facebook next morning. I usually scroll by all the negative comments, but this week they really got to me. To those who claim they have a right to their opinion and that it is a discussion thread, I would say that this was not a discussion, it was a full on visceral attack of a young woman who had just recently been brutally raped. A woman who had just awoken from yet another nightmare of this attack. People lash out when they are angry. Her reaction was understandably angry, and she does not deserve this.
Wow, this episode is my favorite Sophie episode yet!! There is so much to talk about, I’ll get right into it, my Kilt Rating is another solid 5!! I think this episode is just as good, if not a bit better, in some ways than last week, which I gave a 5, so I must give this a 5 as well. They’re almost like one big episode split into two parts, so I feel compelled to continue the 5 streak.
My Good was the young Mohawk Warrior. I notice that he seems to be having some kind of internal struggle when it comes to Roger. In one scene an older warrior looks to be encouraging or goading him to “do what you are supposed to”, Man Up, if you will, and deal with Roger in a harsh manner. The Young Warrior seems honestly to feel guilty about their treatment in a way, so it adds an interesting layer to his character. I’m wondering if he is only recently made a Warrior, and as his initiation, has killed a Redcoat officer and taken his horse, a Friesian. That horse initially stuck out to me when I first saw it, and I thought it was a glaring error in equine casting, but then I decided he must have simply taken the officer’s fancy horse, as well as his fancy coat. Friesians would not have been a usual mount for any of the tribes, as the warriors would have preferred nimble and hardy ponies, to go along with Amanda’s observations last week.
Friesians are more suited to the carriage and idyllic countryside, than the rugged and treacherous wilderness. But this young man, and another warrior as well, have adopted Friesians as their mounts, and therefore I must head-cannon that he has just killed an English officer, and took that fantastic horse as his swag. I feel as though the young man wants to take it easy on Roger, especially since the other man dies, but when Roger says, “let me guess, my chariot awaits”, you can see the look of offense and indignation dawn on the young man’s face, and he then gets a bit rough with yanking the rope. It’s just a very interesting thing to watch, and I appreciate the character’s internal dynamics.
My Bad is the Nightmare sequence with Bonnet, and the Badness comes from how well done and effective it was. I got a serious adrenaline rush and a bit triggered by this scene. Ed is so scary as Bonnet, he’s fantastic, but maybe a little *too* good at his job, cuz he scares the bejeezus out of me!!
My GREAT was about a thousand things, but I’ll try go trim it down.
First Great, the Makeup crew, did you see Roger’s face?!? Holy cow, whoever did his makeup is frakkin brilliant, even his eyeballs were beat up!! Hats off to them, truly…
Second Great, Claire & Bree talking about the things they miss. I found a particular poignancy in this scene, since I find myself doing the same thing with my mom since the fire. We talk about the things we miss, the way things used to be, and we know that we can never go back to how things were. It just touched my heart with its bittersweet tones.
Third Great, when Young Ian proposes, and Claire turns her face away with the most disgusted “I can’t evencbelieve I’m seeing this” flustered mom look, and then Jamie tells him to get off his knees, ya idjit!! Ha!! The plight of parents everywhere, leave our daughters alone, ya goober!!
My Fourth Great, SOPHIE SKELTON, and her entire performance during the confrontation in the kitchen, she is so good!!! When she calls Jamie a “Self-righteous Bastard”, I slammed my hand on the table, and yipped, my poor daughter dropped her crayon in surprise at my outburst!! I have watched this scene over and over again, her line of, “You do NOT get to be more angry than me” is possibly my favorite thing she has ever said. It conveys so much in a single line, it informs her character as a Fraser, and as a woman who has absolutely gone through hell the last few months, and she is finally confronting the truth of her situation on the ridge with these men who are accustomed to simply taking charge of the situation, without consulting the people(the women) whose opinions *actually* matter. It’s quite the slap in the face, pun intended. I have no problem with her bare-knuckling her way through the situation, I would likely react the same way if my new shaggy dad and boobie of a cousin decided to go full idiot mode and nearly beat to death, then sell my handfasted hubby and possible father of my baby, to the dang Mohawk, the scariest tribe around!! Yeah, I’d likely be a bit slap happy too! Also, I noticed that when Jamie is “accusing” her of lying in the beginning of the episode, he is braced and ready to catch her arm as she goes to slap him, but the next time, when he seriously charges her with lying and dishonoring herself, he is not ready for a slap, and gets the full brunt of Bree’s anger. Sam does a fantastic job looking surprised right there, just brilliant. This whole scene is my favorite thing about the episode, I loved it, even though the writer overstepped just a scooch with certain parcels of dialogue, I don’t even care, the overall scene is masterful at showing Bree in her Full Fraser Fierceness, and dang, I would not want to cross her!!
All the shoes are finally dropping, all the threads we have been weaving are finally revealing the tapestry of story here, and I love it. One last Great, the look on Jamie’s face when Ian says he sold Roger to the Mohawk, Oh Snap!! It’s priceless– not only did Ian sell Roger, but he sold him to a notorious tribe that is known for it’s ruthlessness, so poor Jamie is gonna need a bigger boat, as it were. I can’t wait for next week, I’m pretty sure we’ll be in for some fireworks???
I agree that this is the best season since Season 1– great story, great moments, great emotions, great suspense. I always thought I liked [the first half of] Voyager better, but the TV version has me really fall in love with Drums.
I give this episode 4.7 kilts
Good- Everyone brought their A-game to every scene this episode, they were all fantastic. I really loved Roger breaking down in tears as he realized his choice. I think the episode would have ended better at that moment than cutting to black as he reaches out to the stone.
Bad- I could walk 500 miles?… But we don’t need to see every step. This felt reminiscent of Claire’s jungle excursion and Bree’s trek through Scotland. Both times were good and important, but could have but shortened by a few minutes to make way for something else.
Great- The nightmare. We’ve been hearing about Bree’s nightmares and her crying in the night, but this time we got to experience it. I cringed and felt her horror and could imagine her panic as Roger morphed into Bonnet.
Also, I love that you guys are now watching the preview during the listener feedback episode! It’s so cool to hear you react and talk it through while it’s fresh!
The first four lines of the poem were included in the book when Jamie and Bree come back from hunting and saw Claire in her garden. That’s were Luke got it from.
Those were actual rhododendrons that were there. Rhododendrons are now native to Scotland.
Roger’s make-up was great and he will have a permanent scar on his head, as per production. Makes me wonder how that’s going to figure into future eps. A constant reminder for Jamie.
Dear Mary & Blake,
I do love your theory about Brianna and Lord John Grey. Really I do. But you seem to have forgotten something; William! If he married Brianna, she’d be the mother of her own half-brother! And John is determined to keep the secret of his parentage under wraps, even from her. She’d figure it out after a while, and be forced to keep a big secret from her own brother/stepson. Ew. And let’s not forget how devoted John is to Jamie. Jamie would break his neck in five seconds or less if they were married by the time he rescued Roger. Especially since part of marriage is sleeping together. Jamie may have accepted the idea that Lord John sleeps with men or women while thinking about him. But John sleeping with his red-haired daughter while thinking about him . . .Lord John was lucky that Jamie decided to keep their friendship despite his infatuation. But John living vicariously through his daughter, maybe creating another child eventually. Jamie would never speak to Lord John again. And John knows that. So no. Lord John and Brianna will not be an item. And how unfair would it be to Roger, if he came back with the father-in-law who beat him up, only to find his wife had married the man who’s in love with the man who beat him up.
Jamie looks at the evidence in front of him and reacts to it, that’s his fiery nature and sometimes he’s got enough control to overcome it (Black Jack at Versailles) and sometimes not – the same thing that he did with Jenny over young Jamie.
The slap – according to Matthew Roberts, Sophie REALLY did hit Sam. No wonder it looked so real! And that was something that people didn’t DO – ie: remember what a scandal it was that Claire slapped Laoghaire?
And for us “go to hell” is a throw away line of anger, for Jamie it is SERIOUS, and crushing.